ACRID LICK GRANULOMA!!!
Hello one and all. Our vet says Rufous has the above disorder - arrahh!! This is on top of his mild hip dysplacia so he is not a happy bunny in his lampshade at the moment. Seems, having researced the internet on this problem, that there can be many underlying causes and as we have only had him for a short time, may possibly be stress related. It appears after continuous licking in the same area which, in turn creates bacteria and infection. Long term anti biotics plus calmer tabs and anti inflams plus a special wash and cream. Vet saying that it can be a long haul to correct it and he already has a bald spot although the lesion has stopped leaking. Have any members had similar probs with their labs as this is one of the breeds that are predisposed apparently? Don't believe he is bored - so may just be an underlying joint issue. Can't investigate just yet but an xray may be next on the agenda. Oh joy!! What with all this horrid rain, muddy paws and wet towels, all I can say is roll on the spring!! :lol:

Oh poor Rufous :( I've certainly heard of this sort of repetitive behaviours being stress-related - and being rehomed is a very stressful experience for many dogs...not to mention the stresses and strains they may have gone through beforehand. Stress can take its toll on the body for a surprising amount of time - and behaviours like this can become habits too. It could also be related to an achy joint, as you say. I was reading a very good case study article by Peter Neville, the well-respected behaviour counsellor, in Dogs Today magazine only a matter of days ago. The article is not to hand at the moment, and I'm not sure if it was the current issue or another issue I had lying around. From memory, he cured a dog of obsessive paw chewing/licking by giving it a lot of other chewing activities eg feeding all meals in Kongs or by scattering kibble around the house/garden for the dog to forage. This sort of mental stimulation is brilliant for all dogs, and is also a proven stress-reliever. And in the case of that dog, it also redirected its licking behaviour onto sometime else and broke the paw mutilating habit. I will try to dig it out the article for you if you'd like it.

Re: ACRID LICK GRANULOMA!!!
Have you thought about a Dap Difuser or collar for him ? http://www.petmeds.co.uk/Products?search=dap&gclid=CKGUssLD-pACFQ4rlAod1A_XqQ I have heard good feedback about them :) Lucy xx

Hi Elaine and Chocgirlsmummy...Hadn't heard of the Dap products and certainly think the collar might be worth a try. Having kept an eye on him without him really spotting me, he only seems to start licking during the period just before he settles down to sleep after his run/meal etc. Perhaps like a baby, he seems to need a comforter and in his case, he starts to lick his front knuckle. I have seen Kala do something similar but with her, she stops after a few lickings and settles down. Would appreciate some info from the aticle you mentioned Elaine, anything that heps really would be great. They do have a kong each and will start putting some of their food into one and see if this can assist him as well. They have been sitting in the cupboard recently due to Rufous having to take so many pills and things!! Both dogs currently fast asleep now (heaven) so time to respond to you. So nice to go out in sunshine today - ha ha ha!! Bye for now.....Get looking into this DAP thingy.......If it works will be worth every penny. :lol:

Hi Sheila Peter's article is in the current Feb 2008 issue. Of course, all cases are individual - and the dog in question was stressed and frustrated after a paw injury meant it could no longer do its normal activities eg agility and long runs. The chewing then spread to his other feet as it became a habit. Your own case would have its own causes and solutions, but I would recommend reading what PN has to say. If you can't get a copy, give me a shout and I'll photocopy it and post it to you if you like. If Rufous does it when he settles down, how about giving him something to chew or lick at those times? eg cow or pig's ear, rawhide chew (if he is Ok with them) or something in a Kong eg cheese spread, banana, or maybe a mix of chopped apple, carrot and yoghurt (plug the tiny hole with cheese and then freeze to make a fruity lolly). Hopefully something like that - as long as you don't pick something that hypes him up with excitement - will satisfy his licking urge until he dozes off. If it's always after exercise, it would be worth mentioning that to your vet in case it's pain-related

Many thanks Elaine for your help. I will try to get hold of the mag and have a read of the article but if not, I may well take you up on your offer to photocopy it for me. I agree 100% that if its a pain related problem then only an xray will show up what the cause is. Have to wait apparently until the lesion is well healed up but given he has to have his hip looked at under xray anyhow, will ask for it all to be done together. I have ordered one of the DAP collars to see if that makes a difference at all just in case! Turn over every stone me thinks....When he came back this afternoon, once he got home he was hobbling on the leg in question so I believe there is more to this than meets the eye. Could be an underlying bone prob or maybe even shoulder/elbow...Will keep you updated once we have the xray carried out - I am determined to get to the bottom of it as it really holds him back even though he has a dodgy rear end hip prob. :roll:

Poor lad. If he was hobbling on the leg he licks it does indeed sound like it should be your first line of investigation. :( In PN's article, he replaced strenusous physical exercise (eg agility classes and long walks) with clicker training at home. These sorts of things can work wonders - although the dog doesn't run about, he uses his brain and that is stimulating and tiring for him. I've taught mine all sorts of silly things with the clicker, such as 'tidy up' which means they have to pick up toys and put them in a bucket. you teach it in gradual steps, rewarding each one and getting it understood before moving on to the next eg look at toy on floor, then touch toy on floor, then pick up toy, then bring toy to you, then drop toy in bucket, then you throw toy further away to get the retrieve etc etc A couple of years ago, my Boney had a knee injury and was going stir crazy and begining to food-steal off the worktops etc. I also found it useful to do hydrotherapy (in addition to other stuff) and he was so much happier to be having things to think about and help him expend energy. hope your vet can come to some conclusions - and solutions - v quickly

:( Just to let you know that Rufous is having his xray this Thursday so the vet can assess both the extent of CHD & DJD in hip and elbow - OMG!! Granuloma is good now but he will still lick at times (when he thinks we are not looking) and is also showing more and more signs of lameness in his front leg..Will update when we have a prognosis...Watch this space..Let's hope it is good news rather than bad ah :?

Fingers and toes crossed Sheila XX

Hope all goes well for you and Rufous. will be thinking of you both on Thurs xxx

:( Hi - well, my worse fears have been confirmed in black & white today. Rufous has HD on both sides and ED in both front legs. The left side being the worst. Ongoing management will be anti inflams and pain killers together with prescription food (not sure about that mind)...Exercise to be not too much nor too little..Can only get worse of course with age. So, his poor ol life aint gona get any better for him except he will have us to help him out along with Kala's input of course. Will keep you posted and am off to have a good ol weepy!! Also to rob the piggy banks :twisted: :twisted: Any good advice would be appreciated btw... :wink:

Oh Sheila, so sorry to hear your news :cry: Of course I don't know your vet...but a word of caution from my own experience. 2 years ago, my Boney was diagnosed as having HD by the local vet - even though nothing showed on the x-rays. Vet said that basically he was a lab, labs get HD and that's that...didn't matter what the x-rays did or didn't show. I was lucky to have a national, if not world, authority on HD in my local town - Gary Clayton Jones, in tenterden, kent. I took Boney to him and was told (using the exact same X-rays from my vet) that he didn't have HD at all - it was a knee injury...which in time healed. What I'm trying to say is...it might be worth a second opinion. If still bad news, you might like to read Gary CD's booklet (4.99) on HD http://www.sheilaharper.co.uk/onlineshop_list.aspx?SubCategoryRef=97 and after all that...I fostered a dog for LRRSE who had severe double hip dysplasia and an untreated ruptured cruciate ligament from some time previously. with medication, he is living a happy and active life :D lots of love and cuddles to you both xxxx

Many thanks Elaine. Have found the said book on Amazon and have ordered it tonight so that at least I will have more information to hand about the condition. As you say, it is not the be all and end of life - it can go on as best as it can be for Rufous (and many others like him by the seems of it!). An ortho specialist has been asked to view the ED xrays but given my internet research to date, an operation on his elbow would only be as a last resort. All down to careful management and diet. Hey ho - we luv them really!! :lol:

It is not all doom and gloom :wink: Dudley my youngest has severe HD (score 86 :shock: ) But she is fine and is fully fit and ful of life at 5 years old ! She is fed a raw diet and so long as you keep the weight off and keep them more lean they will benefit from that. I give them fish oil tablets and also green lipped mussel tablets and give her moderate excercise and try and avoid jumping etc. Swimming is also extremely good and build up the core muscles with low inpact. She rarely has metacam as it is normally only after a extra long walk and she then occasionally limps bt after a dose she is back to normal . Just lead a normal life but be aware of the problem and he will be fine. ! Lucy xx